The Truth About Wolves
While watching the Sportsman’s Warehouse DVD the other night, I saw a clip from the guys at Primal Adventures TV that really set my hair on end. I don’t believe it is even open to debate that we have to see some management of the wolf population. I’m not for getting rid of all the wolves in my home state of Idaho because I am a realist that understands that won’t ever happen, but control of the wolf packs is a must. I am no game biologist, but even I can figure it out that you can’t obtain a balance in nature if you don’t manage an animal that has no natural predators. Check out the clip below and let me know what you’re thoughts are. I don’t like to get political or even veer away from the story telling on this blog, but this is a subject that lands right on my doorstep. A word of caution – the video is graphic and spares the wolf nothing.
[youtube MoH9GvEgxwI]
EDIT: I’ve moved this debate to the forum. If you’d like to continue, go to this thread on the forum. I feel like it might be easier to keep track of everything if it is in the forum – of course you may still respond here, but you might have better luck getting a response in the forum. Thanks!
It’s out of control. I agree something has to be done pretty quickly.
I think I better not watch the video.
From everything I’ve read and heard, I would have to agree with you.
I agree with you Tom, a re-introduced predator must be managed! In Oregon we are having big problems with Cougars killing our big game since the laws were changed prohibiting the use of dogs to hunt cats. It infuriates me to no end. And this is what & who are license fees go to, “said biologists”. Not impressed! What is even more rediculous is that in a recent article in the Oregon Hunters Association magazine, a biologist even had the Kahonas to state that we would have double the survival rate of Calf Elk were we to manage the Cougar population. DUH!
Terry – No question. I talked to a biologist out of Burns about the Steens Mountain unit (East side) because we weren’t seen deer where there used to a ton of deer – and big bucks, too – and he confirmed that the cats have had a horrible impact on them there specifically because the terrain favors them so much. The government trapper in Malhuer County told me that he could get the sheep population back to normal in one year if they let him trap as many cats as he saw fit. It is super frustrating – hopefully something is done about the wolf problem soon – I have my doubts that anything will ever get done with Oregon’s cat problem being that the bulk of the population lives where hunting does not concern them, unfortunately.
I think that some sort of population control needs to be in place, and when I say population control, I mean hunting.
If predators – who have no natural predators themselves – are not kept in check, these are the types of things that will happen.
Tom and Arthur you two are right on track. I don’t like to generalize or stereotype, yet the majority who plces the most votes / hence laws passed are the people who who least understand the facts and the balancing act that is required to maintain both animals and habitat!. Clueless “Antis & Flatlanders”, GEEZE! There I said it.
I am going to play a bit of a devils advocate here. I do not have the exact figures of the wolf population in the Yellowstone National Park. However I have my doubts about the number of wolfs mentioned in the video. Hunters and hunting organizations tend to grossly exaggerate wolf and cougar numbers because these two predators are in direct competition with hunters.
Let me give you a brief example of what I mean. Here in British Columbia we have a healthy wolf population. Wolf tags are available over the counter and many hunters hunt them. Each time a picture makes the rounds of a deer, elk or moose carcass found in the woods hunters cry out “Wolves did that. We need to kill more wolves. The wolves are stealing our deer.†Even when the “perpetrator†cannot be clearly identified hunters still maintain that the wolves did it. It is this direct competition between hunters and wolves that creates animosity against the wolf.
Wolves need to be managed and in most places they are managed well. Like it or not, wolves play a vital role in healthy ecosystem. If that means that there will be less animals for us to hunt then so be it. It makes no conservation sense to blame the wolf for doing what we’re doing too. Good conservation sense means to accept that there are other predators besides us and they too have as much right to hunt as we do.
-ov-
Othmar – Thanks for your response. My issue here is that there is NO Management of the wolf in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming. Oh, and real quickly, those numbers are not the numbers hunters or any hunting organization has given – those are the numbers the park is willing to admit are in Yellowstone.
I don’t like wolves, I’ll say it real bluntly. However, If you want to say they play a part in a healthy ecosystem – I’ll give you that. I won’t give anyone that wolves, without management, do a lick of good. None whatsoever. I don’t know numbers of wolves/elk or any of that. I’d be lying if I said “wolves have killed x% of the elk population.” I have no clue. I do know I see fewer elk and moose in areas of Idaho where wolves have established themselves.
As for blaming wolves for doing what we do – I’m not about to compare wolves to humans. I just can’t do it – God didn’t put us on earth to be equal to animals.
I will say that Idaho had very healthy and very large elk herds before the wolves were introduced. If the wolves only took the weak and old – then what is that pack doing to a nice healthy looking bull in that video?
I do agree that wolf numbers are exaggerated – on both sides. Pro wolfers will tell you the numbers are real low – anti wolfers will tell you they’re real high. I think it’s fair to say the key point to your post is that, when MANAGED wolves can co-exist just fine with elk and moose – BC and many other parts of Canada and Alaska proves this. But, as long as the wolf is not managed here in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, etc…the wolf is a blight on the land in my eyes. When we see some management of the predator, we’ll see them coexist with healthy elk/moose herds, I believe. Until then, they make my blood boil.
Hope you still come around, Othmar! I Still love your passion for hunting and love your new site – I just don’t like wolves.
I wish someone would explain to me how the wolf plays a vitale roll in a healthy ecosystem. They are a predator, I am a predator. When humans came in to an area they can replace many of the other predators and maintain a healthy ecosystem. For many a years this is what Idaho chose. They chose to destroy the predator that was the hardest to control and they then controled the ones that remained, and we (human preditors) had some great hunting, and a very healthy ecosystem. Now there is no controling the wolf as a predator. Its kind of like telling all human pedators they don’t need a license or tag, just go hunt, kill anything you want when you want and for any purpose you want. Same effect. Personally it comes down to who do I want hunting and harvesting the game animals. I enjoy hunting, so I vote for me. A person can’t really get a full vision of whats happened to our game unless you’ve lived here and seen it in action. In both Oregon (cats) and Idaho (wolves) we have talked to game biologist and they tell us what they are up against and what is at fault, but the scariest part of this is they don’t want their names mentioned. Why? Who is controlling their jobs? It is a scary thought if you let your mind go that far. Even if we can’t agree, we need to stick together because some day down the road we’re going to need each other.
That’s a good point – I mentioned to Terry that the biologist in Burns who told us about the cat problem – when we asked if we could use his name – and even have him do an interview on film – for our video we did of the deer hunt in the Steens, he wanted nothing to do with that. He wanted no mention of his name at all – can’t say that I blame him for his job’s sake, but it does make a person wonder…?
For the sake of being fair – I’m not sure wolves are the same as giving EVERY human an open tag to shoot whatever, whenever, etc….I mean, human numbers far outnumber wolf numbers…but I do get your point. Just thought I’d throw that out there, though. I guess you’re not making an argument that it is the same effect, though – just that it is kind of the same idea – the wolf is a killing machine for sure with no regards to who/what/how it kills. Anyways – back to the discussion…it’s getting good – Keep ‘em comin’ folks!
Alright now, Othmar yes you have a valid point regarding coexisting and Tom you are right on track. Managed to coexist, that is the key. Gary and Tom I agree with you both. Another point Gary is that we (human Predators) typically do not kill and leave meat behind. We do not kill for the SAKE of killing just to do so. We kill in order to use as much of that animals meat as we can save to feed our families.To use the hides for whatever other uses we see fit. That is our POINT to hunting. We do not hunt with a “pack” mentality for sport whenever the whim strikes us and then leave good meat behind to rot and be wasted, having eaten only a partial hind quarter. That is what those of us who are ethical, responsible hunters call poachers, in human terms. Management is key and until that occurs we will all suffer the consequences. As hunters we will continue to see the herd animal numbers decline and be left with much less possibility of harvesting an animal. Whatever happened to Common Sense? Like the saying goes ” If common sense were so common, more people would have it”. I’m disgusted with the whole mess.
If I read this right there is a common thread here that we all agree on,- Management. We might not agree on their existance, but we do agree they are here to stay so for goodness sakes, put there management into the hands of those that deal with that sort of thing on a daily basis and get it out of the courts. Easier said then done.
Kills me how the anti’s will permit one species to suffer just to prevent hunting. I agree w/ Gary, let the locals make the choice on how to handle and leave the national no-no groups out of it.
Tom – Like I said at the beginning of my post “I play devils advocate†My comment was general observations about the hunter v. wolf debate. I also stated that wolves do need to be managed. I have no clue about the exact figures in the Yellowstone Park. Of course I still come around and read your blog. We’re not fighting we’re debating and exchange opinions.
Just to make my point clear again, using another species that seems to ruffle hunters around here (BC). According to the Teddy Bear huggers the grizzly is near extinction. According to hunters there is a grizzly behind every tree “stealing†our game animals. Fact is there is a grizzly population of about 15’000 in our province and that is well within the habitat carrying capacity. Most hunters think that there are to many bears “stealing our elk” and so they should be killed. It’s this competition
Gary –A healthy ecosystem is where wildlife, including predators, can co-exist without threatening the survival of a species. Humans do play a roll in that system too but it does not mean that humans should replace other predators. The reason many predators have been eradicated in some parts of the world is pure and simple due to the greed of humans that are not willing to share “their†game with other “hunters”. If, as I said in another post, wolves and other predators are managed like any other wildlife we can life together in a harmony as nature, or Good if you will, intended it. For me, as a hunter conservationist, that harmony based on balance is important. I believe if conservation is solely aimed at pleasing our desires it will fail in the long run.
Terry – That human hunters do not kill for the sheer fun of it and don’t waste meat is an age-old mantra that cannot be applied to nature or should serve as an excuse to eradicate predators, not that you imply that. Humans have ethical and moral values and these are manmade and change from culture to culture. Morals and ethics should not be used as any sort of guide in conservation because it has place in nature. When we attempt to control nature we have to do it strictly based on science and nothing else. Of course, that is wishful thinking because humans do the conservation and with that political leanings and back scratching are often more important then science. We see that here in BC. We have an exploding elk population and science says to kill as many elk cow and fawns as possible. Politic says that killing elk cows and “cuddly†fawns will not go down well in public and with the animal rights. This is often the biggest dilemma with conservation, be that elk, bears or wolves.
-ov-
Interesting, Othmar. I reckon every region has their own issues between some type of predator and game – and the fight goes on between the two sides. FYI – I’m moving this discussion to the forum if you’d all like to continue to participate, check out the forum thread here. It might be easier to keep track of what’s going on.
[...] Original Post: The Truth About Wolves [...]
[...] The Truth About Wolves [...]
Tom. Thanks for this video. I live right smack dab in the center of this problem and have wittnessed it first hand, the cow calf ratios are very scary for the future of these magnificent animals. It is no longer about weather or not our children will be able to hunt elk, it is weather or not they will remember seeing them. The Moose are already in grave danger.
I don’t hate the wolves either, in fact I love to see them and photograph them, but there has to be a balance. They are completely disrupting the ecosystem of NW Wyoming. The one pack in Yellowstone had several black wolves in it, that ” dissapeared” from the park this year. stangely 5 wolves showed up in a valley we freqent often. all black and all male…hmmm.. doesn’t take a scientist or biologist to figure that out. these wolves are all dead now as they immediatly started preying on a friend of ours cows.. predetor control had to step in.. I know a young lady tfrom here that works for the wolf recovery program. She was in Yellowstone all last year and when I tried to contact her in January when we were going to the park to take pictures, I was told that she is now in Washington state… there are not supposed to be any wolves there… but now I see were people on the net are spotting wolves there and in Oregon… A tough issue.. but one that has to have a balance, if people would just get off the extremes… thanks again for this video..
I didnt watch the video but I just had a comment for you about what you said. The climate will change population numbers on wolves…Im writing a research paper for my college and I agreed in the beginning that wolves should be hunted but once you learn all the research done, the statistics, not just myths then people will be more accepting of wolves. I even came from a ranching town and only a few rare cases have come up where wolves did take some livestock. I believe that people only want to hunt the wolf just to satisfy what they believe. Get the facts people!